{"id":729,"date":"2008-08-01T10:41:56","date_gmt":"2008-08-01T02:41:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.nargalzius.com\/blog2\/http:\/www.nargalzius.com\/blog2\/archives\/2008\/08\/2008_08_01_1041.php"},"modified":"2008-08-01T10:41:56","modified_gmt":"2008-08-01T02:41:56","slug":"regarding-gruber-and-magicpad","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/archives\/2008\/08\/01\/regarding-gruber-and-magicpad","title":{"rendered":"Regarding Gruber and MagicPad"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.daringfireball.net\" title=\"visit site\">Gruber<\/a> Said:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>Regarding MagicPad, the upcoming iPhone notes app with text selection and copy\/paste, a few readers have emailed to point out that Safari uses double-tap-and-release (tap, up, tap, up) for zooming, whereas MagicPad is using double-tap-and-hold (tap, up, tap, drag) for selection &#8212; and that so therefore there isn&#8217;t any conflict between those two gestures.<\/p>\n<p>I just don&#8217;t see how typical iPhone users could be expected to make that distinction. On the Mac, double-clicking in text means &#8220;select this word,&#8221; whether you release the button after the second click or not. Single- vs. double-tapping is complicated enough for most people; double-tap-and-hold vs. double-tap-and-release would be baffling.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Is he serious? I&#8217;m beginning to think this is one of those <em>I&#8217;ve-already-been-corrected-but-just-have-to-continue-arguing-just-to-make-it-seem-like-I-still-make-sense<\/em> arguments.<\/p>\n<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the guy as far as UI design goes &#8211; but seriously, this is just ridiculous.<\/p>\n<!--more-->\n<p>You <strong>cannot<\/strong> compare &#8220;usage&#8221; to the Desktop side <span class=\"footnote_referrer\"><a role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\" onclick=\"footnote_moveToReference_729_1('footnote_plugin_reference_729_1_1');\" onkeypress=\"footnote_moveToReference_729_1('footnote_plugin_reference_729_1_1');\" ><sup id=\"footnote_plugin_tooltip_729_1_1\" class=\"footnote_plugin_tooltip_text\">1 <\/sup><\/a><span id=\"footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_729_1_1\" class=\"footnote_tooltip\">I mean you COULD, but since Apple has already decided that some interface triggers be changed from what people are used to (because they had no choice, you don&#8217;t have a physical mouse and keyboard in the iPhone) then I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s all fair game as far as that goes.<\/span><\/span><script type=\"text\/javascript\"> jQuery('#footnote_plugin_tooltip_729_1_1').tooltip({ tip: '#footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_729_1_1', tipClass: 'footnote_tooltip', effect: 'fade', predelay: 0, fadeInSpeed: 200, delay: 400, fadeOutSpeed: 200, position: 'top right', relative: true, offset: [10, 10], });<\/script>&#8230; else it would legitimize the argument that double clicking on a browser page on the desktop should ZOOM the page, and not select text. So let&#8217;s just drop the whole desktop vs. iPhone approach and stick with the iPhone.<\/p>\n<p>I disagree that &#8220;typical iPhone users&#8221; will not make make the distinction because ever since the iPhone was released, double tapping and releasing would zoom the page&#8230; if you hold it down, it won&#8217;t do anything &#8211; and we <strong>don&#8217;t<\/strong> hear &#8220;typical&#8221; iPhone users complaining about <em>that<\/em> now do we? It&#8217;s a <em>non-issue.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>But I do think that it shouldn&#8217;t be a double tap and immediate drag&#8230; there should be a delay to differentiate the intention to drag from a [mistaken?] double-tap to the intention to make a more advanced function.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m thinking double-tap then hold for a few moments&#8230; like how the text loupe works. So it&#8217;s like a double-tap-then-loupe sort of trigger. So if you engage the loupe from a single tap, you&#8217;re simply navigating text (normal default usage)&#8230; if you engage the loupe from a double tap, then you engage the more advanced functions &#8211; in this case, cut\/copy\/paste. I think having it popup the loupe for that as well, but have an indicator that you&#8217;re in a different mode (cut\/copy\/paste).<\/p>\n<p>Then we could use a second finger tap to do whatever else &#8211; whether it be popping up a menu to select from the clipboard (paste) and replace the selected text&#8230; or copy\/cut the selected text to the clipboard. Or actually once you have a <em>selection<\/em> they could just do it like Windows Mobile that tapping and holding on selected text would bring up a context sensitive menu. The trick here is how to differentiate between selecting a block of text, and just positioning the cursor between letters (how it works now).<\/p>\n<p>But in any case, given the cards, the double-tap-hold approach sounds intuitive to me, certainly a better trigger than the one from <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nargalzius.com\/blog\/archives\/2007\/08\/2007_08_11_0752.php\" title=\"View\/Read\">this video<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Of course the crux of this argument is how it could conflict with <em>possible<\/em> systemwide implementation &#8211; which is non-existent at this point. And should Apple decide how to treat the double-tap-hold in the future, I&#8217;m sure the MagicPad author would adjust accordingly.<\/p>\n<p>Seriously, it&#8217;s a <strong>non-issue.<\/strong><\/p><div class=\"speaker-mute footnotes_reference_container\"> <div class=\"footnote_container_prepare\"><p><span role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\" class=\"footnote_reference_container_label pointer\" onclick=\"footnote_expand_collapse_reference_container_729_1();\">Notes<\/span><span role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\" class=\"footnote_reference_container_collapse_button\" style=\"display: none;\" onclick=\"footnote_expand_collapse_reference_container_729_1();\">[<a id=\"footnote_reference_container_collapse_button_729_1\">+<\/a>]<\/span><\/p><\/div> <div id=\"footnote_references_container_729_1\" style=\"\"><table class=\"footnotes_table footnote-reference-container\"><caption class=\"accessibility\">Notes<\/caption> <tbody> \r\n\r\n<tr class=\"footnotes_plugin_reference_row\"> <th scope=\"row\" class=\"footnote_plugin_index_combi pointer\"  onclick=\"footnote_moveToAnchor_729_1('footnote_plugin_tooltip_729_1_1');\"><a id=\"footnote_plugin_reference_729_1_1\" class=\"footnote_backlink\"><span class=\"footnote_index_arrow\">&#8673;<\/span>1<\/a><\/th> <td class=\"footnote_plugin_text\">I mean you COULD, but since Apple has already decided that some interface triggers be changed from what people are used to (because they had no choice, you don&#8217;t have a physical mouse and keyboard in the iPhone) then I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s all fair game as far as that goes.<\/td><\/tr>\r\n\r\n <\/tbody> <\/table> <\/div><\/div><script type=\"text\/javascript\"> function footnote_expand_reference_container_729_1() { jQuery('#footnote_references_container_729_1').show(); 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jQuery('html, body').animate({ scrollTop: l_obj_Target.offset().top - window.innerHeight * 0.2 }, 380); } }<\/script>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Gruber Said: Regarding MagicPad, the upcoming iPhone notes app with text selection and copy\/paste, a few readers have emailed to point out that Safari uses double-tap-and-release (tap, up, tap, up) for zooming, whereas MagicPad is using double-tap-and-hold (tap, up, tap, drag) for selection &#8212; and that so therefore there isn&#8217;t any conflict between those two &hellip; <p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/archives\/2008\/08\/01\/regarding-gruber-and-magicpad\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;Regarding Gruber and MagicPad&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p><\/p>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5,13],"tags":[322,638],"class_list":["post-729","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-internet","category-technology","tag-daring-fireball","tag-john-gruber"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/729","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=729"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/729\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=729"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=729"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/nargalzius.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=729"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}